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DNG - Full support in the future ?

 
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: DNG - Full support in the future ? Reply with quote

Hello, I would like to know if you are going to implement full support of DNG in future. Actually only preview image is viewed and it's inconvenient due this issues -

1 - It's not possible to inspect image sharpness, because IVMP is not capable to show image 100%. Well ok, it's capable but only when preview is LARGE and it's not very hlepfull indeed because:

2 - Adobe DNG Converter, god knows why, is applying some automatic adjustments to preview image so exposure, tonality and color is almost always very different to actual capture.

Sure I can always open image in third party application to inspect sharpness and to see real capture, but it's not very convenient.

So, are you going to fully support DNG in future? Thanks for kind response.
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johnbeardy



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Dulwich, South ("Sarf") London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'd say the support is pretty complete. Set your ACR preferences to make a full size preview - Peter Krogh has proved most pros can't tell the difference between a big print from the preview and one from the raw file. Secondly, change your Camera Raw default to switch off Auto exposure and other settings you don't like - look at the Sharpening and Noise options too because the preview can then be better than looking at the raw DNG. A third tip is to create your DNGs by using the Save button in the ACR dialog.

John
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can call the support "complete" when IVMP can work only with previews. You also don't view only EXIF previews in TIFF or JPEG. To use large previews during conversion to DNG is a little bit space and time consuming (try and see the diference between large, medium and none processing time). Many RAW convertors using their own precessing engine or engine derrived from dcraw.c already proved that there is no need for previews - you can demosaic and view image in appropriete enlargement instantly.

Anyway thank you very much for your tip on how to get rid of these auto corrections in Adobe DNG Converter. I had no idea that it utilizes default Camera Raw Settings.
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johnbeardy



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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Location: Dulwich, South ("Sarf") London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because there's a perfect preview and reconverting the raw data serves no purpose.
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roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 2147
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Well ok, it's capable but only when preview is LARGE and it's not very hlepfull

You know if iView only offered full conversion I'd be screaming for the opposite :).

Adobe DNG Converter, god knows why, is applying some automatic adjustments to preview image so exposure, tonality and color is almost always very different to actual capture.

Yes and that's why I only make DNGs via Bridge or Photoshop where all your adjustments are used.

Because there's a perfect preview and reconverting the raw data serves no purpose.

Yes it does. It gives me time to make a cup of tea, infuse for an appropriate amount of time, and dip a few bickies. :).
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnbeardy wrote:
Because there's a perfect preview and reconverting the raw data serves no purpose.


Yes, it serves - at least for people like me, who has about 50GB of DNGs with small or none previews.

You are also forgetting that Adobe DNG Converter is not only source of DNG files anymore. Ricoh GR Digital, Samsung PRO815, Leica Digital Module R are cameras which produces DNGs as native RAW. I can't tell for all the cameras but I don't expect them to include full preview - because of additional time needed to process, battery life and also about 1MB space on card more.

roberte wrote:
You know if iView only offered full conversion I'd be screaming for the opposite :).


You would have no need to scream. You would just turn option "Use Preview when available" ON.

Reason why I scream is that you don't have opposite option - if there is small or none preview. Or you have - reconvert image or open it in some freeware image viewer like IrfanView. Well I don't thing it's really what user should be forced to do.
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johnbeardy



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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Location: Dulwich, South ("Sarf") London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I think you've made your case though you need to make it as a feature request rather than to other users. It should be an optional setting. However, the full size preview is worth having - what's another few Gb?

John
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Last edited by johnbeardy on Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did post request right now... will see if something happen.

Few GBs more are not so crucial, sure, but the time needed for processing of full size previews for whole ingested card *sometime* is.
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roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

You are also forgetting that Adobe DNG Converter is not only source of DNG files anymore.

You are right I did forget about that. I have some Leica DNGs and I came up with two options. One is as John suggested and have Leica embed full size JPEG previews at time of capture. Nikon and Canon do this. Two is to run the DNGs through ACR to embed those full size previews.

One may happen but not anytime soon, however two is doable now.
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 roberte - I think we're just walking in circles. Sure there are viable methods how to cope with lack of full DNG support in IVMP - many of them, but that is not alway comfortable to do so. Full preview is only optional feature of DNG, not must have. And so the IVMP should have some no-preview scenario.
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, many thanks for your help and valuable tips. This issue is now up to IVMP developers I guess.
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absolution



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: 2 johnbeardy Reply with quote

Hello, I just had opportunity to try your tip on turning off all automatic settings in Camera Raw, save that as default and then convert my RAW files using Adobe DNG Converter. But automatic adjustiments are still applied to my previews! So what should I do now?
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roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 2147
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The auto setting setting is saved in the sidecar file or database. You'll need to purge the cache in Adobe Bridge. WARNING: This will remove all your Camera Raw adjustments!
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