iView home page
iView Multimedia Forum Index

FAQ FAQ     SearchSearch     MemberlistMemberlist     UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister  
ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

IVMP image editor vs. Photoshop as NEF raw converter

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    iView Multimedia Forum Index -> iView MediaPro
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: IVMP image editor vs. Photoshop as NEF raw converter Reply with quote

Question from an amateur...

I've been disappointed with Photoshop CS2 Camera Raw's conversions of my Nikon D70 NEF files. Photoshop Camera Raw creates a distinct yellowish cast and desaturates all colors, some more than others. The desaturation is especially noticeable in vivid colors (e.g., the brilliant red eyes of a cuckoo or night heron, and the blood-red streaks on a Yellow Warbler's breast, become dull brown after conversion). I can correct for the yellow cast, but I am unable to rescue the vivid reds no matter how many adjustments I try. (I've tried adjusting hue/saturation while still in Camera Raw, and both hue/saturation and selective color in Photoshop after conversion; and color replacement just seems inappropriate and unwieldy for these situations).

Setting aside for the moment the possibility that I don't know how to use Photoshop or PS Camera Raw properly...

Is there any reason why I shouldn't use iView MediaPro's image editor as my Raw converter? The colors in the TIF files created with the editor are much more faithful to the NEF original (as seen in iView media preview), albeit a bit darker; but in Photoshop I can correct for darkness more easily than I can correct for lost colors.

I also tested Nikon Editor as a raw converter, with very good results; the blacks aren't as black as the original NEF, but at least the colors seem true. So, it seems either Nikon Editor or iView MP image editor are better suited for NEFs than Photoshop Camera Raw.

Thoughts? Advice? Am I missing a critical concept?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 2147
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The image editor built into iView is really only for quick conversions and not serious work.

RAW conversion is subjective including the out-of-camera JPEGs. If you prefer iView's interpretation of the NEF over Adobe's then you are better to use Nikon Capture to edit. Plus you can save the settings and updated JPEG preview so the edited NEFs look the same in iView.

ACR is getting some interesting new features that will let you tweak the Adobe look.
_________________
-- Robert
Expression Media 2 / Windows 8 / Mac OS X 10.10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Robert. A couple follow-up questions...

roberte wrote:
The image editor built into iView is really only for quick conversions and not serious work.


To clarify... Do you mean that the IVMP image editor simply doesn't have as many calibration/adjustment tools as the big boys like Photoshop/ACR? Or do you mean that the IVMP image editor alters the image in some sort of lossy way that makes the resulting TIF less desirable for future edits in Photoshop?

roberte wrote:
RAW conversion is subjective including the out-of-camera JPEGs. If you prefer iView's interpretation of the NEF over Adobe's then you are better to use Nikon Capture to edit...


Are you recommending the more expensive Nikon Capture over Nikon View/Editor for reasons similar to those above?

roberte wrote:
ACR is getting some interesting new features that will let you tweak the Adobe look.


I'm still using CS2, which I believe supports only ACR 3.7, so I won't be able to see these new features until I upgrade my Photoshop.

By the way, is camera calibration with a "Color Checker" card essential or simply recommended for getting the best results from ACR (or any Raw converter for that matter)?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dierk



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Hamburg (Germany)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrasy wrote:
To clarify... Do you mean that the IVMP image editor simply doesn't have as many calibration/adjustment tools as the big boys like Photoshop/ACR?


Yes. It's really not in the same league with any other image editor ...

Quote:
Are you recommending the more expensive Nikon Capture over Nikon View/Editor for reasons similar to those above?


Don't know about Robert, I recommend Capture NX. Lightzone would be a very good alternative.
_________________
xMedia v2 on Windows XP/SP2; 3.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM, loads of storage space.
Other: Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Breeze DownloaderPro, Capture NX, Adobe CS3 Design Premium
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dierk. If I may probe a bit more...

Dierk wrote:
syncrasy wrote:
To clarify... Do you mean that the IVMP image editor simply doesn't have as many calibration/adjustment tools as the big boys like Photoshop/ACR?


Yes. It's really not in the same league with any other image editor ...


If that's the case, then would I not achieve the desired results by simply converting the NEF to a TIF in the iView image editor or Nikon Editor (to preserve the colors), then opening the TIF in Photoshop (which I already own) to do actual editing/adjustments?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: It's always fun to admit to being a knucklehead...

I discovered that my camera's color mode was set to "Ia sRGB", when it probably should have been "II Adobe RGB". I just changed the color mode and took a couple test shots of a color chart, opened the NEFs in Photoshop/ACR and, lo and behold, red is red, magenta is magenta, and blue is blue, etc., with all colors reasonably saturated. The images are slightly darker than the embedded JPEGs, but probably easily correctable if deemed necessary.

I don't have another red-eyed heron in front of me, so I can't re-do that shot now, but I'm hoping this explains the problem.

[edit]

This is odd... After changing my Photoshop color space to Adobe RGB, I went back to look at my earlier color chart test images. The pics shot with the D70 in sRGB mode still look horrible in iView but, and this is the weird part, they look true to hue in ACR. A few hours ago the color of the embedded JPEG was bad in iView and its NEF mate was bad in ACR. Why would D70 sRGB mode NEFs suddenly look better? It doesn't even matter if I change the Photoshop space back to sRGB... the converted "bad" NEFs still look good. Why would Photoshop seemingly punish my D70's color space one minute, then ignore it the next? Unless I'm misremembering actually checking them with ACR. But I'm pretty certain I did. On the other hand, I read in another forum that, "If you're shooting raw, it doesn't matter what you set the color space or color mode to in the camera, since you can change the setting in your raw converter."

In any case, the heron's eyes are still brown. Oh, well. So much to learn.
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Nikon NEF plug-in to bypass ACR Reply with quote

I'm not sure how I missed this, but I can bypass ACR by simply copying the Nikon NEF plug-in (from Nikon View) into Photoshop's plug-ins/file formats folder. Now I can edit the "nice" Nikon-colored NEF image in Photoshop to create my TIFF version. Obviously it means I can't use ACR adjustments, but I wasn't following the ACR workflow anyway because I didn't like having to keep track of those annoying .xmp side car files.

Dierk, I am exploring the new Nikon Capture NX2 (trial version just released this week) as a Photoshop replacement. I'm realizing Capture might give me a simpler, non-destructive raw workflow without the annoying side car files or TIFF duplicates.
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dierk



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Hamburg (Germany)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and NX 2 is a lot faster with a cleaner UI and some very, very powerful features. For instance, the healing brush [no, don't call it cloing tool] may not be as flexible as the one in PS - hopefully they give us a source-destination setting in the near future - but it simply does what it should: take out even large disturbances.
_________________
xMedia v2 on Windows XP/SP2; 3.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM, loads of storage space.
Other: Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Breeze DownloaderPro, Capture NX, Adobe CS3 Design Premium
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    iView Multimedia Forum Index -> iView MediaPro All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



  © iView Multimedia Ltd. | All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy | Copyright | Site Map