iView home page
iView Multimedia Forum Index

FAQ FAQ     SearchSearch     MemberlistMemberlist     UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister  
ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

D300 NEF support in IVMP on a Mac using 10.4.11 (Tiger)

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    iView Multimedia Forum Index -> iView MediaPro
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: D300 NEF support in IVMP on a Mac using 10.4.11 (Tiger) Reply with quote

I'm starting a new thread on this topic because I believe earlier posts related to D300 NEF files on a Mac have been misleading.

iView's Simon Street says that Mac OS 10.5.2 (Leopard) is required to view D300 files. He also says, "MediaPro 3 does not support the new Nikon D300 camera NEF file format on the Macintosh platform" (see older post).

Well...

I just downloaded a sample D300 NEF from the Web (I don't have the camera yet). On my Mac OS 10.4.11 (Tiger), IVMP 3.1.3 appears to be able to browse the file just fine. Also, Nikon Capture NX2 (trial version) appears to be able to edit the file normally. (The file info indicates it's a 14-bit lossless compressed Raw file, so I assume I'm working with a legitimate D300 NEF.) As expected, neither Mac Finder nor Preview recognizes the file in Tiger, but I don't think that limitation will prevent me from doing my work.

So....

It seems that I can successfully catalog and edit D300 files on my current system (IVMP + Mac Tiger), without upgrading to Leopard or moving to Expression Media -- as long as I don't have the expectation of viewing the file in Preview (or in Photoshop/ACR CS2, which doesn't support D300, but if I edit my raw files in Capture instead, this is a moot issue).

I understand that Tiger doesn't technically support D300 but, contrary to what Simon said, apparently IVMP 3.1.3 does support D300 files on a Mac, and the "official iView statement" on this matter should be modified/clarified. I assume the presence of any D300-supporting app (e.g., CaptureNX, Lightroom or the new Aperture) is what makes this possible.

Am I missing something?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: D300 NEF support in IVMP on a Mac using 10.4.11 (Tiger) Reply with quote

I've been testing out my new D300, and have observed that the NEF's preview JPEGs (in iView) don't simulate the actual NEF (as seen in Nikon Capture). They're lighter and duller in iView.

Curiously, if I make a slight adjustment to the NEF in Capture (e.g., exposure), then save the NEF, iView then displays a fantastic-looking preview and thumbnail (when rebuilt)--just like the adjusted NEF. So iView can preview an adjusted D300 NEF accurately, but not a NEF straight from the camera. As a test, I tried using Nikon Transfer instead of iView for importing the images but this didn't help.

(I didn't have these problems with my D70.)

My questions:

1. Is the lightness of the thumbnails/previews due to iView/Tiger's lack of support for the D300 (i.e., the NEF's shooting info is not getting passed to the preview JPEG)?

2. Why does an adjusted D300 NEF get interpreted accurately in iView?

3. If I were to use iView 1.3.1 on Mac 10.5.2 (Leopard), would the D300 NEF's preview JPEGs match the camera- original NEF better in iView? Or would I achieve true D300 raw support only by using Expression Media + Leopard?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jvincemery



Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Northern VA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the answer, but since I'm also having similar discrepancies between thumbnails and media views on DNGs, I thought I'd chime in.

Might your issue have something to do with XMP sidecar files? Is Nikon Capture writing the updated info to XMP files, which IVMP is then reading?

My issue is that with Color Match switched on in IVMP preferences for Media Rendering, my thumbnails in IVMP do not match the Media View previews. The thumbnails are over-saturated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvincemery wrote:
Might your issue have something to do with XMP sidecar files? Is Nikon Capture writing the updated info to XMP files, which IVMP is then reading?


No, Capture embeds (nondestructively) the new info into the NEF file itself (similar to DNG files). I will likely start using Capture instead of Photoshop for this reason--and because Photoshop ACR doesn't play well with Nikon NEF colors (although the pros might debate this).

I noticed that the only other visible difference between these files was the file type or "kind" in the Mac finder. The camera-original NEFs get imported as "Camera Raw" (set to open in Preview) while the Capture-adjusted NEF gets turned into "NEF Image" (set to open in Capture). The adjusted file has a generic NEF icon rather than a tiny thumbnail. I changed the file type for all the "Camera Raw" files to "NEF Image", but it didn't improve their appearance in iView.

Update: my workaround is to run a batch process in Capture, creating new NEFs from the camera-original NEFs. It takes some time, but this is the only way I can get iView to display nice-looking D300 previews. Curiously, Capture displayed the new "nice" thumbs momentarily, until I changed the thumbnail size, whereupon it reverted to the washed-out thumbs. Odd.
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iviewadmin
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I am glad to see that you've been able to work with the Nikon D300 files under MediaPro 3 & Tiger. As you know development work ceased on MediaPro 3 a long time back so support for any new camera since that time relies on updates to QuickTime or OS (such as the "Digital Camera RAW Compatibility Updates")

I'm sorry if I gave misleading information, I didn't have a Tiger machine at the time to test with. When I was researching this on the Apple Support site the only reference I could find for support for the Nikon D300 was in reference to Mac OS 10.5, so for safety I posted this would be a configuration you could expect to work.

You have obviously got into this issue in far greater detail than I now. If there are any outstanding questions or help you need please feel free to post them here and I'll take a look.

Just to say please do ensure you grab your free upgrade license to Expression Media v1. That upgrade ceases on the 30th June and should a future OS update cause problems with MediaPro 3 you would have a position to move to.

Kind regards
Simon Street
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Simon,

No worries. I just wanted to get the most out of iView + Tiger. (I'm avoiding Leopard because it eliminates Classic mode and, Luddite that I am, I still run a couple OS9 applications.)

I did obtain the Expression Media upgrade last year, but I only just installed it moments ago. I assume the latest version for Mac is 1.0.3 ("Post-SP1 Rollup", whatever that means).

Let's see how it does on Tiger...

[pause for test results]

Now this is interesting... EM displays D300 thumb and JPEG previews darker and more saturated than the NEF reference file in Capture! (Just the opposite of iView, even though both programs are set to use the manufacturer's preview files.)

Why would that be?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 2147
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

With the Expression Media Service Pack 1 Rollup (version 1.0.9058.0) Microsoft changed to the new Nikon SDK. Over-saturated NEF files is a known bug and the workaround is to turn color matching (color management) off.

I'm sticking with the original SP1 (version 1.0.9038.0) before the Rollup. If you do the same make sure you use QuickTime 7.3.1 or earlier. The Rollup fixed a bug with QT7.4+ which may cause Expression Media to truncate references to the original media. IOW your catalog can't find the original images.
_________________
-- Robert
Expression Media 2 / Windows 8 / Mac OS X 10.10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roberte wrote:
With the Expression Media Service Pack 1 Rollup (version 1.0.9058.0) Microsoft changed to the new Nikon SDK. Over-saturated NEF files is a known bug and the workaround is to turn color matching (color management) off.

I'm sticking with the original SP1 (version 1.0.9038.0) before the Rollup. If you do the same make sure you use QuickTime 7.3.1 or earlier. The Rollup fixed a bug with QT7.4+ which may cause Expression Media to truncate references to the original media. IOW your catalog can't find the original images.


Thanks for the tips, Robert. I'm already using QT 7.4.5, so it seems like I'm better off sticking with the Rollup version (9058), assuming Color Match isn't critical. If I recall, downgrading QuickTime isn't trivial, given all the other dependencies.

Perhaps I'm underestimating the importance of Color Match?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syncrasy



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Cropped vs. original NEF dimensions Reply with quote

This is interesting...

When I crop and save a D300 NEF file (using Nikon Capture), iView doesn't recognize the new dimensions in Media Info; it still displays the original NEF's dimensions (4340 x 2856 pixels). But when I crop and save a Nikon D70 NEF file, iView does display the cropped image's dimensions.

At first I thought, "OK, this is an example of how iView + Tiger will not support D300," but Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058) doesn't recognize the cropped dimensions for either D300 or D70 NEFs.

I use the dimensions in my HTML galleries, but this poses a problem. iView gets it wrong for one camera, and EM gets it wrong for both cameras. The one visible difference I can see is that iView doesn't show an encoding value for my D300 NEFs, but EM shows the D300 NEF as "NEF-Compressed" (which is also the encoding for my D70 NEFs in both iView and EM).

Thoughts?

If the possible answer is "Tiger is trying to read the D300 NEF's dimensions off its embedded JPEG, but Tiger doesn't support D300" then why are D70 NEFs (which are supported by Tiger) being handled inconsistently?
_________________
Nikon D300 | iView Media Pro 3.1.3 | Expression Media 1.0.3 (9058)
Nikon Capture NX 2 | Photoshop CS2
Mac OS 10.4.11 | Power Mac G5 | 2.5GB RAM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iviewadmin
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a interesting situation, which I'm going to raise to the Expression Media team.

I can't guarantee a response I'm afraid but I will do my best to get an answer for you.

With thanks
Simon Street
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
roberte



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 2147
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Rolling back QuickTime on Mac isn't as easy as Windows but you can do it with Pacifist.

FWIW the Nikon D3 and D300 produce very different flavoured NEFs compared to earlier models, especially if you use lossless compression.

The latest Nikon SDK that xMedia 2 and 1 (SP1 Rollup) use is also very different. I was able to hack new SDK versions into iView MediaPro 3 but I can't with the latest implementation.
_________________
-- Robert
Expression Media 2 / Windows 8 / Mac OS X 10.10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    iView Multimedia Forum Index -> iView MediaPro All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



  © iView Multimedia Ltd. | All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy | Copyright | Site Map