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IS THIS NORMAL BEHAVIOR ?

 
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pierre



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Liege/Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:51 pm    Post subject: IS THIS NORMAL BEHAVIOR ? Reply with quote

- Create a brand new empty catalog.
- Create a new set and click on it so the right part of the window is well the one of that new empty set.
- Drag then on it either actual picture files from the Finder, or thumbnails from another iView catalog.

What happens ? The new set appears still empty.

I have to do Find > Show Last Import to see the new thumbnails, then to select all of them, and finally to drag them a second time in the new empty set to have them where they were expected.

Is this how iView is supposed to work, or is there a way to be more efficient ?
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Jim



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Portland, OR, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre,

Yes... that seems like iView's normal (though inefficient) behavior to me. Whatever way I import (drag and drop, or File>Import Items...) the files *always* just end up in the main library -- never associated with any Set, including the one that's currently open. It appears that Sets, like other annotations (except for auto-fill), can be applied only *after* the image is already imported. This has bugged me too... :? I end up keeping a Set (Category in my case) at the top of the list ("! New Imports") which reminds me to drag stuff over after every import and get it cataloged at least some way at first...

Jim
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pierre



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Liege/Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: When will "they" listen to us ?! Reply with quote

Thanks Jim for the confirmation.

Again the same song : if the manual did show any pedagogic sense, then a lot of people wouldn't have to find it the hard way, spending time in sometimes dangerous experimentation and having to ask for help.

When importing just a daily bunch of pictures, the import weakness isn't much annoying. When trying to rescue 6,000 pictures, spread over 400 sets (which of course are not just the mirror of similar Finder folders, but are the result of weeks of splitting by topics), it simply means that it makes rebuilding a nightmare.

Again one of my desperate song : iView lacks of the essential, i.e., strong recovery procedures. That soft is killing me. If I had knew it, I would never had enter that trap.
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Jim



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Portland, OR, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Rebuilding Reply with quote

Oh no... sorry to hear of what you are doing Pierre! I'm assuming that in the face of a seemingly corrupted Catalog you are rebuilding it from scratch? I hear your pain. :(

Do you (or anyone reading this?) know of any other Cataloging application that *does* have strong recovery capability for a situation like this? As far as I know they all fail to really address these issues adequately. If you discover one, please let us know -- as that would be a big plus I agree!

I have to admit that your story makes me happy I archive in JPG and TIF and am able to take advantage of IPTC annotations, so that I could rebuild my Catalog if necessary.

I truly hope your work goes smoothly and speedily as possible, and that your structure all comes right back to your mind as you are re-cataloging...

Best regards,
Jim
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pierre



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Liege/Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE Reply with quote

Dear Jim,

Thank you for your concern and compassion. Yes, I dared opening the last version of my main catalog with 2.5 beta. I don't know why and how, but the garbage I talked about in previous posts, which was visible in the annotation part, suddenly had disappear. What do you think I did when seing the miracle ? Command-S to save that dream. And in a second, the dream turned into a nightmare : ALL my containers and sets were rubbed off, without any warning message ! Thanks, iView team.
So I now have to start from my previous backup and spend hours redoing my last week job, still in a catalog with the worm in it.
Yes, there is an alternative to iView, not as flexible, but so much safer : the combination of the Finder (for organizing pictures in folders, with as many aliases as needed) and GraphicConverter (for selecting and making slideshows).

About safety and restoring, I already wrote I think that iView is just nothing else than a specialized database. There is an example of a good one : FileMaker Pro. You can create a clone of a file, and then import all or part of your records to rebuild a brand new file. And it also offers a consistency check. iViewMedia should remove the "Pro" from its name...

A not related question if you don't mind : is there a way to edit our own profile in this forum ? I see no way.

Have a good WE.
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Jim



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Portland, OR, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way to edit profile. I submitted to iView support about this right after Forum reopened. Got a reply that the issue was being forwarded to the webmaster...
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vseh



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 133
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pierre
I tried to duplicate this tonight, opening a catalog in 2.0.3 then 2.5beta3 but was unable to reproduce this.
The sets and their hierarchy came through OK and similarly after making one or two new set entries reverted back OK.
I take it you lost your set structure but every thing else was alright.
When using "drag and drop" between catalogs I find all information such as in the IPTC fields eg keywords,categories crosses over fine. However sets DO NOT cross over and this is specifically discussed in the manual on (written) page35. Why this should be the case I don't understand as I would think most users would want to duplicate all their data entry fields.
Do you currently use the category field? if not this may give you a chance to "set" up afresh. Sets can be made automatically from both categories and keywords.
As Jim has written so well elsewhere data in categories can be synchronized with the original file and can be edited in other programs eg Graphic Converter.
Whilst sets do not directly copy via "drag and "drop" it is possible to copy the set structure and then paste it into the new catalog so that the original structure is reproduced. Of course the files would still have to be entered into this new set structure.
I hope this may save you a little time in what sounds like a long job.
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Shawn Richards
Powerbook17"MacBook Pro, Mac OS 10.5 and IVMP 3.1.3 and Canon 20D
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pierre



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Liege/Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:16 pm    Post subject: Glad you did not reproduce it ! Reply with quote

Hi vseh,
Happily and logically for you, your experimentation couldn't reproduce my sad experience. I say logically because it happened to me because my catalog contains a corrupted annotation category that nobody seems able to get rid of. I suppose you had not the opportunity to read about it in previous posts.

No, I do not use any annotations, because when I started using iViews, months ago, the concept and utility did not appear at all to me when reading the manual, which is obscure to me. Now, it is too late : I don't have the time nor the nervous resistance to go and assign several keywords to the six thousand pictures already spreaded within four hundred sets.

But for my education, could you tell me :
1) is it possible to batch-assign (I mean one drag or one click) a given keyword to all the pictures from a set ?
2) are the different keywords recorded in the ressource fork of the file, or in the data fork ?
3) by the way, where is the EXIF recorded ?

Best regards from Belgium.
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Jim



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Portland, OR, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Annotations Reply with quote

pierre wrote:
1) is it possible to batch-assign (I mean one drag or one click) a given keyword to all the pictures from a set ?
2) are the different keywords recorded in the ressource fork of the file, or in the data fork ?
3) by the way, where is the EXIF recorded ?

(1) In the Organize panel, (a) Add your keyword, (b) Select the Set, (c) Select all images [command-a], (d) Drag and drop images onto the keyword.

(2) Synchronize provides options. "IPTC Cross-Platform" embeds annotations in the data fork, maintaing cross-platform usefulness. "IPTC Mac" embeds in the resource fork -- potentially more widely useful with other Mac apps? (Don't know exactly) I leave both checked myself.

(3) EXIF data is stored in the EXIF block header in the data fork.

EXIF and IPTC header data is not accessible/readable directly from the Finder. Luckily there are *many* applications than can read such data.

pierre wrote:
Now, it is too late : I don't have the time nor the nervous resistance to go and assign several keywords to the six thousand pictures already spreaded within four hundred sets.

Never too late to start Pierre... especially if having another safety net is of concern to you. If you can use synchronize (i.e. are using a supported file format), then to convert Sets to Categories: (a) Create a Category X to correspond to Set X, (b) Select Set X, (c) Select all pics, (d) Drag and drop onto Category X. That's it. Goes relatively fast actually. You could continue to use those nice heirarchical Sets in daily practice, while knowing that the basic structure can be preserved inside the file via Categories. (You might have to creatively name Categories to code your Set hierarchy.)

Jim
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vseh



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 133
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jim - Another great reply
It's a pity that sets aren't conserved and editable unlike fields such as keywords.
I think I was lucky when I set up my initial catalog to be familar with "keywords"
As you wrote elsewhere the manual is OK on "how" but short on "why".
It does indicate that sets are a freeform system but the consequences of sets not being conserved is NOT explained. This has cause Pierre a lot of heartache.
Pierre - I've now read your post on your corrupted catalog.
Does a new catalog still do this (in 2.0.3)? If so perhaps you should download a new application program. I note that 2.5b3 just puts a ? in the field.
If you make a new catolog in 2.5b3 does the "?" disappear?
If so try taking some of the images from the corrupt catalog and drag them into the new one. Does the new catalog continue to display OK?
If yes, then drag all your images into the new catalog. Once again you will have to reenter SET info but I would do this by "Categories" which will allow you to create sets from the category entries and is also conserved and editable at ~User/Library/Application Support/iView/Plug-ins/Favorites/Categories.
I don't know of any faster way of rebuilding a catalog. Perhaps someone else knows.
Finally do you do sequential backups?
I do this via Retrospect 6. If so you might be able to restore your old catalog prior to corruption and then import your files created after that date.
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Shawn Richards
Powerbook17"MacBook Pro, Mac OS 10.5 and IVMP 3.1.3 and Canon 20D
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